A Veg Oil Guzzler ....

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tighterse
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Re: A Veg Oil Guzzler ....

Postby tighterse » Sat May 10, 2014 7:11 pm

Can I ask Mr. Dale to clear up and answer a point or two before I order some of his product.

On the website most of the testimonials are from the U.S. and most refer to gallons of fuel. Are these U.S. or Imperial gallons?

I was out and about today shopping (force majeure) and dropped into a couple of car accessory shops and a branch of Halfords. None of them neither stocked nor knew of the product – why?

Assuming the treatment as recommended is based on Imperial gallons the purchase price would effectively lead to diesel costs 10% higher (more for petrol and much more for U.S. gallons). Following on from this my Ceed would have to achieve over 80 mpg simply to break even on expenditure – can this be guaranteed?
Without giving away trade secrets what is a rough estimate of numbers of cars and lorries in the U.K using the product. If it is so effective why is there no national advertising?

I’m a natural born doubter and have seen many of these products come and go over the years – produce verifiable and checkable independent evidence and convince me.
Kia Ceed 1.6 crdi isg Retired undefeated on 25,720 miles and 62.91 mpg overall

Now driving my second Sportage.

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Karl
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Re: A Veg Oil Guzzler ....

Postby Karl » Sat May 10, 2014 8:49 pm

Not wanting to poo poo these type of products but it there was really something in it then major fuel suppliers would be selling "ECO" fuel.

I know shell do their fuel save fuel bit personally I'm also rather skeptical too.

The additive I was running in the QQ may have caused my last dpf regen after running just 2 tanks of the still. Strangely the company haven't been in touch since advising them of the issues.

I have 5l of the stuff sitting in my shed that won't be going anywhere near the Merc. If anyone want pick it up or pay to the postage then they are welcome to it.

I'd really like to be converted but IMHO it's just snake oil and the very small percentage differences could be caused by environmental or traffic changes.

I would however like to hear other peoples experiences with it.

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2015 Skoda Octavia VRS Combi 2.0 TDI 184 DSG in Candy White - 50MPG and climbing

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mark dale
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Re: A Veg Oil Guzzler ....

Postby mark dale » Sat May 10, 2014 9:02 pm

Can I ask Mr. Dale to clear up and answer a point or two before I order some of his product.

Hi, yes, no problems.


On the website most of the testimonials are from the U.S. and most refer to gallons of fuel. Are these U.S. or Imperial gallons?

I suspect that they refer to US gallons, but, all the figs I use and refer to are using the litres figures for how much it treats, then converting that to UK gallons.

I was out and about today shopping (force majeure) and dropped into a couple of car accessory shops and a branch of Halfords. None of them neither stocked nor knew of the product – why?

It isn't available in retail outlets, as the parent company's route to market is via Network Marketing. Basically, giving what would have been advertising costs back to the distributors, in terms of commissions.

I think this has it's pro's and cons, for the UK market.

eg. Their Info site is very Americanised - this is an example of one that you get as a distributor - http://lessfueluk.mysyntek.com -have a browse around.

I personally aren't a huge fan of their advertising, hence why I put the http://lessfuel.co.uk site together.



Assuming the treatment as recommended is based on Imperial gallons the purchase price would effectively lead to diesel costs 10% higher (more for petrol and much more for U.S. gallons). Following on from this my Ceed would have to achieve over 80 mpg simply to break even on expenditure – can this be guaranteed?

I'm not sure we can guarantee you to get 80mpg - as I said, it is a challenge with hypermilers - what is your current mpg? if you get a 4% increase, then that makes it worthwhile in monetary terms; plus, it does more than just increase mpg, it has other benefits. Is this calculation based on the US gallon conversion as you mentioned, or using a %age increase figure? - although, there is the 6 tank challenge, which is backed by the UK head office guarantee - as per here http://lessfuel.co.uk/xft-6-tank-challenge/

Without giving away trade secrets what is a rough estimate of numbers of cars and lorries in the U.K using the product. If it is so effective why is there no national advertising?

It was only publically launched into the UK in January, so we are still building the use of it. This is done via the Networking etc. Currently, there are at least 100 distributors ( most based in the South West, where one of the main Network Marketers is ) all using it, and with customers using it - as an example, some have 10 - 30+ customers

the lack of national advertising is because they have gone the route of Network Marketing - ie word of mouth, giving people samples etc - hence how I came here ... after googling for communities who want to save fuel in the UK


I’m a natural born doubter and have seen many of these products come and go over the years – produce verifiable and checkable independent evidence and convince me.

Yes, I was also similarly a doubter, and having been into my cars, also seen them, but then also know the effects the likes of millers forte can do, and other system cleaners. The totally independent evidence is what we are doing by asking folks to trial it as per the testers on here. One of the inherent problems with the business model is that when someone has tested it, and wants to become a distributor, then they no longer become independent - like myself! But, the 4 guys on here http://lessfuel.co.uk/xft-user-feedback/ are independant, and I haven't ever met 2 of them - Mark and Callum, others are contactable via their facebook links here http://lessfuel.co.uk/xft-in-the-uk/ - feel free to message them.

There are lots of test data docs here http://lessfuel.co.uk/test-cases/

I do totally agree that it all seems too good to be true, and the words scam, snake oil, dodgy, etc all spring to mind, about the product, and the way it is marketed. This is the challenge, and hence also why I approached you guys, as I can genuinely say, that I don't know anyone on here (I think) .... although I am happy to meet anyone if you want, to check me out, ;) I am in Settle, North Yorks, and very checkable - my linked in .. http://bit.ly/MarkDaleLinkedIn

I think, part of the reasons it is marketed via network marketing, is so that essentially, you are buying it by recommendation/connection. As the use of it becomes wider known, folks scepticism will also probably reduce ... hopefully !

It is really hard trying to convince people - unless they know someone who has had good results from it - hence why I am encouraged by Steve's initial results, and the big plus point is that it is a direct benefit for the user and the seller ... one of the "catchphrases of the biz" is that you are "building your business by helping people out" ... like I said - a bit, Americanised :roll:

I am happy to answer questions, and ask folks to try this, as I'm convinced it is a good product.

Mark
er ... only about 20 - 30 mpg .... but, am running on mainly veg oil and xft
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mark dale
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Re: A Veg Oil Guzzler ....

Postby mark dale » Sat May 10, 2014 9:54 pm

we crossed posts there Karl.

hopefully I've answered your questions a bit in my spiel !

I am being totally up-front about it, and I certainly appreciate the chance to discuss it here.

Believe me, I had exactly the same reservations about it. But, as I have meddled with fuel - veg oil, cetane improvers, additives etc for many years, then I gave it a whirl!

I think the fuel companies don't want to have these products, as they would sell less fuel; however, I think now, as marketing is obviously competative, they are selling some fuel that is meant to acheive better mpg.

in fact I think the premium fuels do, which, is one of the XFT advantages ( read " marketing points" ;) ) - that it achieves same or better results as premium fuels, but at less cost per litre.

I have just got some more samples, so can send some on to another tester or 2 if you like for independant testing.

Mark
er ... only about 20 - 30 mpg .... but, am running on mainly veg oil and xft
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tighterse
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Re: A Veg Oil Guzzler ....

Postby tighterse » Sun May 11, 2014 6:37 pm

You’re correct to say that hypermilers will be a hard nut to crack. In fact you are unlikely to even put a dent in the shell and I’ll explain why.

Most hypermilers, myself excluded for reason that will be outlined, are fairly numerate. We all keep very detailed records and are well aware that consumption can be affected by weather conditions, wind, traffic conditions and road conditions. We know that a 5 to 10% swing is not unusual in the relatively short term. However we are long term animals and will only believe a change if it is recorded over several thousand miles. So your product offers to reduce consumption by 2 to 3% (when I said 10% I confused gallons and litres but think I got away with it). This is statistically insignificant. A change of such a small magnitude can be achieved for many reasons. Over the past two months I’ve seen an improvement of around 10% to something like 71mpg although I can’t explain it and no additives of any kind have been used. So unless you can effectively guarantee an improvement of over 10% neither me nor any other hypermiler will believe you.

Then there are the “testimonials”; short term and no mention of any other variables, in a word – worthless. And also statistically insignificant, a few dozen incidents at most.

No “independent” laboratory tests. Have a look at the tests carried out by Fifth Gear and Which. Do you have anything similar?

I have an open mind and can be convinced. But to convince me you would need to produce reliable, verifiable and scientifically repeatable evidence that , for example, my 1.6 diesel Ceed with just under 16,000 recorded miles could, on a long term basis, run at over 80mpg if your product was used. And that is discounting any improvement I expect when summer temperatures reach Scotland.

And don’t mention “other benefits” – hearsay and inadmissable evidence.

Over to you.
Kia Ceed 1.6 crdi isg Retired undefeated on 25,720 miles and 62.91 mpg overall

Now driving my second Sportage.

Warning. May contain a nut.

MikeMarsUK
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Re: A Veg Oil Guzzler ....

Postby MikeMarsUK » Mon May 12, 2014 10:58 am

... Steve - 55L isn't that small, mine's 58L. OH's Jazz is only 42L :o . ...
My diesel tank is 34L, the tank size went up to 42L in the next model year after mine. (and just to make your eyes water, the standard tank of the European-mainland-only '3L' model of the A2 was 20 litres, with 34L as a paid-for option).
Audi A2 1.4 TDI w/6-speed gearbox. Best tank 87mpg, average of all tanks 75mpg. Fuelly ID is MMUK.

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Re: A Veg Oil Guzzler ....

Postby Smithsk71 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:41 pm

I hope you go up a bit more, then it is definitely a £ cost benefit
Mark
Well the 2nd tank is done Mark and I have gone up a bit more.
Total for the tank is 942.9 miles but I think I ran it a little drier than the 1st tank of the previous non-XFT tank.

It's probably easier to see the increase from the Fuelly fillups rather than pure mileage.

9 03/06/14 942.9 59.10 72.5 1.260 XFT2
8 09/05/14 920.8 58.25 71.9 1.239 XFT1
7 18/04/14 893.3 58.29 69.7 1.389 Non-XFT

69.7mpg to 72.5mpg is a 4% increase.

How is anyone else getting on?
2008 Touran 1.9 SE - best tank 752 miles
2000 Golf GTI - best tank 475.9 miles
Retired - 2013 Clio dCi 88 - 32 fill-ups (27,631 miles) @ 68.6mpg average

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frv
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XFT Results are in

Postby frv » Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:25 am

OK, it's been nearly 4 months since I got the XFT sachets and I've finally finished my third tank with it.

It was always going to be difficult to check the results due to all the variable as we've mentioned before but I did do better than this time last year, but I've been improving my mpg year on year too, hmmm.

Tank 1: 738.5 miles @ 63.34 ( last year 62.69mpg, 1% better but average temp. was 11.7 compared to 6.2°C)

Tank 2: 803.5 miles @ 67.92 ( a PR. Last year 63.13mpg, 7.6% better but only 41% commuting compared to 72%, car sharer wasn't in car for some of that so hypermiling techniques were more extreme ;) , 2 longer trips in this tank and ave. temp. was 14.6 compared to 11.1°C)

Tank 3: 708.4 miles @ 65.72 ( last year 64.14mpg, 2.5% better but again ave. temp. was higher again at 18.1 compared to 15.8°C )

Apr - Jul 2013: Average mpg 63.34
Apr - Jul 2014: Average mpg 65.67

Overall I've improved 3.7% over the same period last year. Difficult to say if the XFT has helped with the improvement, it may have but I know I've got better too - continually honing my techniques.
Temperature makes a big difference to me as I've noticed a definite correlation between mpg and outside temperature.
Too many factors to be sure.

The jury is out as they say.......
'15 Audi A3 Sportback SE CoD S-Tronic - 5+ year average 55+mpg
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(Retired) '06 Honda FR-V 2.2 i-CTDi - Best/longest tank: 67.92mpg (+51.6%) / 815.5 miles.

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