New Citroen DS5 Hybrid4 Owner here

markc
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New Citroen DS5 Hybrid4 Owner here

Postby markc » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:58 pm

As the title says I've just taken delivery of my new Citroen DS5 Hybrid4 Airdream 200 (to give the full title). I spec'd it with the no cost option (smaller) 17" wheels which reduce the official fuel consumption and gets the CO2 below the magic 100g/km level (92g/km).

My first few journeys have resulted in just over 50mpg which is a little disappointing given the official Combined figure of 74.3mpg but the engine is still new and tight so hopefully it will improve.

I routinely use hypermiling techniques to improve my economy but I like my creature comforts and won't go without a/c on hot days, really can't do with out my radio for any length of time and refuse to drive overly (dangerously?) slowly on the motorway :)

I have noticed that according to the cars energy flow graphic, the battery never seems to be fully charged. I wonder why cars like these (normal Prius, Insight etc) don't have a plug-in function just to keep the battery fully charged overnight etc for the first journey of the day? The car only has an official range of 2-3km on pure EV (ZEV in Citroen speak) but presumably this is on a fully charged battery. Starting with 60-70% charge is going to reduce this further. I can get to the local shops (about 0.5 miles away) and back on leccy but anything further will require the diesel engine to fire up if only to re-charge the battery.

Obviously a full plug in hybrid, like the Prius Plug-in EV, that has much more battery capacity and makes more sense to plug in and top up between journeys but to me it seems daft not to have this function in the "normal" hybrids like my Citroen. It's no biggy but got me thinking.

I'll keep you posted on my overall fuel consumption.

Cheers

Mark

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frv
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Re: New Citroen DS5 Hybrid4 Owner here

Postby frv » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:04 pm

Hi Mark and welcome to the forum and congrats on your new car. :mrgreen:

Just read a review on AE http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/citroen/ds ... s5-hybrid4

Looks great but what a price! I'll be interested to know if you can get it up to the 70's mpg
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MikeMarsUK
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Re: New Citroen DS5 Hybrid4 Owner here

Postby MikeMarsUK » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:17 pm

... My first few journeys have resulted in just over 50mpg which is a little disappointing given the official Combined figure of 74.3mpg but the engine is still new and tight so hopefully it will improve.
What sort of journeys were they? i.e., with short journeys, the engine has not heated up yet so it is inefficient. Similarly, city driving gives less mpg than motorway driving.
... I routinely use hypermiling techniques to improve my economy but I like my creature comforts and won't go without a/c on hot days, really can't do with out my radio for any length of time...
Hmm, haven't had a hot day yet LOL. But every few weeks I need to remember to turn on climate-control for a few miles to make sure the seals don't dry out.
... and refuse to drive overly (dangerously?) slowly on the motorway :)
What is your cruising speed? Keep in mind that HGVs are typically limited to either 50 or 56 mph (real speed not indicated speed). I target the 56mph HGVs (=indicated speed 60mph on most cars), and find that cruising a safe distance behind (at least 2 secs, preferably 3) means that you don't conflict with other road-users because they are already going around the HGV anyway. I don't target the 50mph HGVs because I don't have enough patience for that speed.
... I have noticed that according to the cars energy flow graphic, the battery never seems to be fully charged. ...
If it's lithium-ion, the battery must maintain some unused capacity otherwise it will wear out very quickly & need to be replaced. But I would have thought that this would be hidden from the user, i.e., if the graphic says 0%-100% that might be 20%-80% in reality.
Audi A2 1.4 TDI w/6-speed gearbox. Best tank 87mpg, average of all tanks 75mpg. Fuelly ID is MMUK.

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Karl
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Re: New Citroen DS5 Hybrid4 Owner here

Postby Karl » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:31 pm

Welcome to the forum! :)

You will probably find that you will get better MPG in the urban cycle rather than on the motorway. Its all the stop / start and slowing down that maximises the regenerative braking and therefore charges your battery. If you are careful you will be able to keep it in EV mode for much longer in the city too.

I'm interested to see how you get on with it, my experience with hybrids has shown that your style needs to change a little to make the full use of the hybrid system.
2015 Skoda Octavia VRS Combi 2.0 TDI 184 DSG in Candy White - 50MPG and climbing

markc
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Re: New Citroen DS5 Hybrid4 Owner here

Postby markc » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:03 pm

Thanks for the welcome chaps.

Journey types have varied a bit. One long'ish run (60 miles each way) to Brighton, mainly on the motorway, and several trips into nearby (5 miles away) towns with plenty of stop start traffic. Friday in Brighton was a lovely sunny day so under the full length glass roof the a/c was definitely needed! I was cruising in the low 70's on the motorway. Like all hybrids It is a heavy car so as Karl said motorway work isn't it's forte.

I fell for the looks (of the DS5) as much at the technology :oops: The quality of materials and construction is lovely but I'll admit it is very expensive for a Citroen, even if the DS models are supposed to be premium products! Battery tech is Ni-MH I think. It looks like nothing else really, somewhere between large hatchback, estate car and SUV. A modern Renault Vel Satis if you will... it'll probably just as successful :lol: Sooo much more interesting than the default Audi/BMW/Merc or even Lexus at this medium size and price point (£30k) though 8-)

Cheers

Mark

parallaxerr
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Re: New Citroen DS5 Hybrid4 Owner here

Postby parallaxerr » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:47 am

Hi Mark,

nice to see another hybrid owner here :) I looked at the DS5 but the price tag was a little out of my range, lovely car though.

If your battery meter is anything like the prius what you see is not 0-100% of the batteries state on the gauge but more likely the most efficient operating range as MMUK says. In the Prius which has NiMH batteries that's 60-80% and that's where the computer tries to keep the charge for battery longevity. The Prius nearly always tops out at 8 of 10 bars unless I regen down a long hill, sometimes I see 9 bars.

markc
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Re: New Citroen DS5 Hybrid4 Owner here

Postby markc » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:16 am

So far I've never seen the battery gauge (in the DS5) go below 2, even when switched to ZEV mode, or above 8. Most of the time it moves between 3 and 7 with the engine cutting in seemingly randomly to add power or charge or both. I'm sure the gauge is not to be taken literally but is there as an general indicator of battery status and therefore ZEV capability.

I still don't understand why it wouldn't be beneficial to have the battery fully changed at the start of every day tho'? I understand that it won't make much difference but it would still make some. Ideally it'd use inductive loop technology to fully charge the batteries when parked over an inductive pad on my drive 8-) If my £30 toothbrush can do it there's no reason why my hi-tech car shouldn't be able to!

I note that there are now several EV conversions for the non plug-in Prius's available in the US. Essentially you put a whole load more batteries in the boot and add an additional box of tricks that allows them to be plug-in charged and also manage the much bigger battery power on the move. It shouldn't be too difficult to add plug-in (inductive loop) capability to a normal hybrid like the Prius, DS5 etc. Anyone up for the challenge? ;)

Cheers

Mark

parallaxerr
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Re: New Citroen DS5 Hybrid4 Owner here

Postby parallaxerr » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:00 am

Hi Mark,

sounds like your battery meter works almost identically to that in my Prius. If you want more accurate information on the batteries state of charge you may want to look into getting a scangauge.

Whilst operating around town for extended periods,the battery meter spends most of it's time near the bottom so this must be where the very flat part of the NiMH discharge curve is. Not sure what batteries the DS5 use though.

My battery is never fully charged when I park up at night as I use EV for the last few miles home. In the mornings I can coast the first part of my journey but the engine will always want to start at some point in order to reach operating temp. This works for me because if the battery is fully charged and I continue to charge while coasting and warming up the engine, the car can go into overcharge protection and gets rid of excess charge via a heat exchanger = wasted energy.

I've seen the Prius plug in mods with extended range batteries and searched high and low for a supplier in the UK, no luck yet. Considered building my own as some have done, I've got lots of experience with battery and charging technology but not sure if I want to hack into my new Prius just yet!

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frv
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Re: New Citroen DS5 Hybrid4 Owner here

Postby frv » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:39 am

Not sure what batteries the DS5 use though.
Looks like the DS5 has a Nickel Metal hydride battery pack.
This is from a few years ago: http://www.thegreencarwebsite.co.uk/blo ... agreement/
'15 Audi A3 Sportback SE CoD S-Tronic - 5+ year average 55+mpg
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(Retired) '06 Honda FR-V 2.2 i-CTDi - Best/longest tank: 67.92mpg (+51.6%) / 815.5 miles.

parallaxerr
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Re: New Citroen DS5 Hybrid4 Owner here

Postby parallaxerr » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:24 am

Not sure what batteries the DS5 use though.
Looks like the DS5 has a Nickel Metal hydride battery pack.
This is from a few years ago: http://www.thegreencarwebsite.co.uk/blo ... agreement/
That would make sense FRV, that's why Marks battery meter works the same as the Prius which uses NiMH's. I thought it may be Lithium based batteries, they have a different discharge curve but you never know what the manufacturer wants you to see!

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